afuna_archive | Filipino versus English

I was talking to

pauamma, and I mentioned that I tend to be more comfortable writing English, but speaking Filipino. He asked me if that was common -- I realized that I have no idea! So:

[Poll #1165118]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

pne.livejournal.com

It rather depends on whom I'm talking to (specifically, what languages they speak or prefer) and the subject matter.

On the Internet, I prefer reading English, since it's usually the original language rather than a translation. And I'm fine with writing English, but would probably also be fine writing German.

Specific technical jargon or cultural-specific things I might know only in English or only in German. (See various posts in my journal :D) Some very mundane things are among the things I know least in English simply because I didn't grow up in the UK and never spoke about them. (For example, some articles of clothing, things that go on your bed, etc.)

To a first approximation, though, I'm about equally comfortable with English and German, and significantly less comfortable with my other languages. (Though I wonder what it would be like if I had had much more exposure to them, e.g. if 90% of the Internet were in French or Greek -- would I read it as fluently as I now do English or German.)

From:

pauamma

The following are excerpts from a 7 year old discussion on alt.callahans (I was using the name ElephantChild then). (Split into 2 comments because it wouldn't fit otherwise.)

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:29:54 +0100
From: ElephantChild
Subject: Bilingualism and fluency (was Cultural Education was Texas...)

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, The Trinker wrote:

> With my mother and I, some of it depends on who's around us,
> some of it on the topic at hand, some of it is my tendency
> to say certain things in English to her because I can't
> get them out of my mouth in Japanese. (i.e. to get around
> cultural strictures.)

As in, "I can use unladylike language in English, but not in Japanese"?
ISTR Zed said she had similar experiences.

> ElephantChild wrote:

> > When I do that, one of the languages (or both) comes out stilted and
> > clumsy.
>
> There's never been a time in my life when I *didn't* need to
> switch back and forth. But I have that problem with Spanish
> and French.

More so than you would when using only one of French of Spanish? I'm
wondering whether fluency is a prerequisite to ease of switching.

> Oh! That explains a great deal. I've never encountered someone
> who is primarily francophone and *not* a linguist who shows your
> facility with English idiom. 9 years of residence and education
> really makes a difference.

Definitely. Going back to France was... painful. And thanks, BTW.
Amusingly, many people think I learned both French and English as second
languages. It seems that both my French and my English have a "almost
native-level fluent, but with *something* missing" flavor. :-) (Besides
the accent in spoken English, that is. And also interestingly enough,
people don't agree, or don't know, what my accent in English is from;
guesses go all over the world map, except that France is seldom
mentioned, if at all.)

> > Well, they didn't, since I learned both French and English. (leaving
> > aside the question of which one they considered dominant :-) ) But they
> > speak vastly different dialects of Arabic and don't use it much with
> > each other, or at least never did in my presence.
>
> *nod* Which is part of why my half brother speaks English.
> It's the primary language of communication between my mother
> and stepfather.
>
> Are you more comfortable in one or the other (French vs. English?)

Yes, but which one depends on what I'm discussing/reading/reading about.
For daily stuff (shopping for groceries, banking, etc...), I'm more
comfortable with French. Or perhaps I should say "in France", as it's a
matter of context and shared background as much as of language proper
(which may be why I'm not confortable with dialects of French other than
the one(s) used in France). For mathematics, it's French, as that's the
language I was taught my math in. For most technical matters, it's
English. That could be related to the ease of switching, as when reading
computer-related technical documents, English will show up sooner or
later, but I have trouble commenting my source code in French when I
program, and the programming languages I use aren't related to English
(IMHO) by more than a few borrowed words, so I don't think that should
be a problem. I'm not comfortable reading poetry in either language,
with a very few exceptions. I have little problems with prose, although
I can spot puns (as in, I think there's a pun there, even if I don't get
it) more easily in English than French. OTOH, of the puns I spot, I seem
to get more in French. I'm unable to *make* puns in either language.
Does that answer your question? :-)

From:

pauamma

And here's the other excerpt. Interestingly, my punnage has since almost entirely shifted to English. (And I got better at making original puns - at least, I like to think so.)

From: The Trinker
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: Bilingualism and fluency (was Cultural Education was Texas...)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:53:01 -0800

ElephantChild wrote:
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, The Trinker wrote:
>
> > ElephantChild wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, The Trinker wrote:
> > >
> > > > ElephantChild wrote:
> > > >
> > > > As in, "the conventions of Japanese don't allow me to talk to
> > > > my mother bluntly, and I don't have the vocabulary to dance
> > > > around the topic understandably, and in Japanese, I still sound
> > > > like a child, although I'm working on that."
> > > >
> > > > Oh, and yes. I can't swear in Japanese, I feel silly.
>
> I feel silly swearing in both English and French. Or more accurately, I
> feel that swearing sounds silly, no matter who it comes from. And biting
> sarcasm in a level voice is so much more effective... :-)

Ah. I prefer 'Elizabethan' cursing, myself, but sometimes there's
great satisfaction in a stream of conventional invective. But I
also have a problem deciding what language to scream 'OW!' in.
Depending on what language I was thinking in most recently, or where
I am, I'll either do it in English (OW!), Japanese (ITAI!) or in
ASL. I don't know how to do it in French or Spanish or Chinese,
I think I should probably be grateful for that...

> > > *nod* "The conventions of Japanese" sounds more like a culture issue
> > > than a language issue. If it's possible to separate the two, that is.
> >
> > A little of both. Notice I can talk to my mother bluntly if
> > I'm using English...
>
> I often have trouble *not* being blunt. But that's not a language
> matter, AFAICT. :-)

Alas, Japanese is a language which prizes circumlocution...

> > > Are you able to switch faster, say, between French and Japanese, or
> > > Spanish and English, than between French and Spanish?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Any other pair is much easier than French and Spanish.
>
> Because they're more similar than other pairs? Or because you learned
> them at the same time? Or for some other reason? (If you know and care
> to explain, that is. :-) )

I *think* it's partly all of the above. I'm not sure. I don't
have any other language pairs that share any of the above, yet.
I learned elementary German and French at the same time, but
never followed up with German (for lack of opportunity). I
think I *might* try either learning Spanish at a more advanced
level, or learning Italian, as I've said before, to see if that
will reduce the problem. It's annoying, as I do use both Spanish
and French on a regular basis.

> > > Hmm, on second thought, I have to qualify what I said. I can reuse puns
> > > if the proper triggers come, or even adapt them to slightly different
> > > triggers, but I'm unable to come up with original ones. For some reason,
> > > I have much less of a problem with other kinds of wordplay, such as
> > > deliberate ambiguity or double entendres.
> >
> > Interesting. Y'know, I really should start polling the Thai
> > people I know for Thai tongue twisters...
>
> *blinks at the non-sequitur* (or nonsense-quitter, as I'm told I used to
> say it)

Umm...sorry. Wordplay, puns, I don't have any Thai puns or
wordplay in my collection.

> *muses* If they can knot the tongue as well as I heard Thai food can
> sear it, that could be... hmm, words fail me. :-)

<laugh> unfamiliar with Thai food, or too wise to attempt to
find out how hot it can get?

> *whimper* My head *hurts*, and it's *all* your *fault*. :-)

Uh oh. Sorry, BOYC in recompense?

The Trinker

From:

afuna

Some very mundane things are among the things I know least in English
You know, I had the same experience with Chinese! It was made painfully clear to me while I was in Beijing that I wasn't familiar with the terms for everyday stuff, though I knew some terms for the more philosophical/abstract ideas that we had taken up in school.